Justin Sun Conversation with Witnesses Is Online. @Ned Sold Out The Community - Failed to Disclose.

UPDATE: Ned just commented on Twitter:

ned tweet.png

Thanks to @ausbitbank, the recording from the private witness conversation with Justin Sun is now online.

steem tron discussion

The short summary is:

  • @ned failed to disclose to @justinsunsteemit that the Ninja mined stake had been earmarked for community development and was not to be used for witness voting prior to selling it to him. Evidence of this was requested by the TRON team.
  • The TRON team said they were flexible with regards retracting their false and slanderous accusation that the consensus witnesses were malicious 'Hackers' - but failed to provide a guarantee that they would publish a retraction at this time.
  • The TRON team claimed their aim is to profit from the purchase, rather than to participate in governance.
  • The TRON team claimed they want to cancel their witness votes asap.
  • They TRON team intends to put a fork in place to allow the exchanges to power down the stake they powered up in order to vote for witnesses with their clients' tokens. The witnesses generally highlighted that this was not agreeable and that the fallout from the actions taken by these exchanges needs to be handled by the exchanges and should not be accommodated by a hard fork.
  • The TRON team have limited understanding of the fine points of the block chain governance system in general.

It seems that even during the meeting, more STEEM was being sent to the TRON accounts that are voting in their top witnesses in order to maintain their position, despite the community moving to reinstate their own top 20 witnesses via rallying around them with their witness votes.

Meanwhile @ned has made his twitter account private and possibly has some difficult questions to answer.

The full recording is on now on 3speak:


Youtube version is below:


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  • @lionsuit

    Thank you for the update breakdown. Sounds like a good meeting. 👍

  • @bob77

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  • @kingscrown


  • @nonameslefttouse

    Thanks for putting this up. I haven't hit play yet.

    They TRON team intends to put a fork in place to allow the exchanges to power down the stake they powered up in order to vote for witnesses with their clients' tokens. The witnesses generally highlighted that this was not agreeable and that the fallout from the actions taken by these exchanges needs to be handled by the exchanges and should not be accommodated by a hard fork.

    They stood their ground. I needed to hear that.

    I pressed play.

    • Sun said, "Not interested in governance."
    • Sun should therefore stop governing, now.
    • Exchanges will have to wait 13 weeks. Good. The real witnesses lost money. Many on-chain services were shut down here and lost money. This mess has taken center stage, pushing many content producers aside, and they lost money. Everyone lost potential profit because of this. Staff quit their jobs. I can't say I feel sorry for those exchanges. Not one bit. They knew what they were doing and now they can face the consequences. No special treatment.

    What more needs to be said? All Justin wanted was his money. He got his money. Now where is ours? Remove the sock puppet account FAKE witnesses and let's just get back to work. Anything else that still needs to be settled which doesn't directly impact everyday operations can be handled in the background.

  • @samstonehill

    Appreciate the summary brother.

    Why am I not surprised this is down to Ned.

    This place isn't much good if he who has the most (access to) STEEM has the most power to do whatever they want. Not much different to Facebook really. Even if he returns things to normal, now we know what he can do, any time he likes. Which doesn't seem to bode well for the future.

  • @grapthar

    I was really surprised that Sun's team-member/confidant didn't know more about Steem and the workings of the chain. I figured Sun himself would be pretty clueless, but he doesn't have anyone around him who understands it either. Hopefully they get educated before the next meeting so they can actually agree/disagree to real proposals like removing voting authority for those accounts.

  • @buggedout

    Quite likely the TRON team promised the exchanges that once they had control they would implement a hard fork to allow them to re-liquify their stake.

    For me, and many others, trust is gone. The STEEM community has no obligation to make good on the sale of Steemit nor to facilitate or compensate the exchanges who have acted in bad faith.

  • @discernente

    They TRON team intends to put a fork in place to allow the exchanges to power down the stake they powered up in order to vote for witnesses with their clients' tokens. The witnesses generally highlighted that this was not agreeable and that the fallout from the actions taken by these exchanges needs to be handled by the exchanges and should not be accommodated by a hard fork.

    This point is fundamental. They must assume the consequences of their actions without putting the burden of a hard fork upon the community.

  • @apshamilton

    My legal analysis. Justin failed to do due diligence on the public blockchain code which contained restrictions on the ninjamine stake. He bought land on the moon and is now trying to convert it to land on Earth by illegal means. Second, despite his statements of not knowing about the understandings regarding the stake, he IS bound by them. These understanding bound Steemit Inc which owned the stake. He bought the company and thus became bound by its pre-existing obligations. More details here: https://steempeak.com/steem/@apshamilton/sun-s-folly-will-be-taught-in-future-blockchain-business-schools

  • @jacobpeacock

    Every 'good' vampire just wants their stake!

    That is all I took away from listening to that meeting. Gah! Squirming, scapegoating and ambiguous duplicity!




    @justinsunsteemit @steemitblog How bad do you want your stake? The steem community wants you to remove your sock puppet witnesses and they will gladly give you your 'stake'...just saying! #steem #steemit #steemrevolt #notyourblockchain


  • @bashadow

    When making any purchase, large or small, it is the buyer that needs to be aware, and that needs to do their own due diligence on the viability/usability of that purchase. When you buy a house you hire an inspector, when planing on buying a collectible antique car you hire a professional to verify the provenance of the vehicle. Ned sold steemit, if Justin Sun did not know what he was buying it was his responsibility to understand and to verify what he was buying. It sounds as if he did not even read the Steemit Road Mao, yet he was talking Tron's Roadmap, so I feel he likely did read and saw the uses of the Steemit Stake.

    When you power up steem you are told that it takes 13 weeks to power it down. The people that powered steem up knew this, if it was not their steem to power up they should not have powered it up. It would be interesting to see a steem run on those exchanges where the depositors were demanding their funds back.

    For the witnesses that read this, I would be against any shortening of the withdrawal time frame as I have been with all the previous post over the course of the last two months talking about it. The Next Hard Fork was supposed to be a stand alone SMT Hard Fork, and nothing else. It should be made perfectly clear during the next meeting that this is what one of the items will be when the Community witnesses re-take up the duties they were voted in to do.

    At the end of the day, it is the job of the witnesses to protect the chain, not a front end.

  • @valued-customer

    I am very, very glad this is publicly available. Kudos to @ausbitbank for making that possible, and to you for making me aware of it.


    Finished listening. Ya'll are gonna have to do your due diligence here. @justinsunsteemit has alleged @ned did not inform him as to restrictions Stinc put on the Stinc stake. That will be apparent in the sale documents.

    As ya'll pointed out, the exchanges seizing their customers's funds and using them to vote bears consequences, and aren't easily dispelled. I suggest the exchanges also effect the non-voting code you have suggested Tron apply to their stake. @justinsunsteemit did effect seizure of governance of the blockchain. Regardless of what he says, that is what he did. If he subsequently does apply that code to his accounts, in addition to the exchanges also doing so, that will prevent this security lapse in the future.

    It is with extreme pleasure that I note the community has voted enough witnesses into consensus positions that no HF allowing the immediate power down of the funds the exchanges powered up.

    I would be sure to consider what he has done as indicative of his intentions from here on out. His allegations seem poorly to conform to his actions so far. It is also apparent that he has little interest in deploying that founder's stake as it is obligated to be. It may be necessary to seek legal enforcement of the assurances Stinc made regarding that deployment to ensure Tron does meet the obligations that stake came with.

    Next time you meet with Tron, you should be represented by counsel. I, again, would be happy to provide competent counsel, in this matter for a nominal fee, such as CZ received for his services stealing Binance's customer's funds. I recall a figure of 1.5M Steem. Lemme know if I can be of help.

  • @meesterboom

    Thanks for this. I think it is important for the community to be aware of the facts and of conversations like this. All communication is useful.

  • @stoodkev

    He said he will make money out of it and exit -> Pump and Dump!

  • @bagofincome

    It's like they're always saying one thing but doing another in the background.

  • @bartheek

    Thanks for sharing this. I'll check this video when i'm back home from work.

  • @ash

    typical Sun move, same lack of due diligence happened with DLIVE. that will bite them in the ass too.

    anyways, thanks for the recording and TLDR!

  • @stefano.massari

    "The TRON team claimed their aim is to profit from the purchase, rather than to participate in governance." This seems like good news to me.

  • @apshamilton

    Postscript: A potential win-win way forward My standard byline below could provide a win-win way forward for Justin Sun and the Steem community.

    Just as Steemit Inc came with pre-existing obligations to the community regarding the ninja-mined stake that Justin didn't know about, it also came with a ~$400M legal claim against Facebook and Google for banning Steem advertising, which he also didn't know about.

    This legal claim is worth far more than the ninja mined stake and is more than enough compensation for what Justin feels he has lost.

    Rather than spending his money trying to take over the Steem blockchain, Justin can sign Steemit Inc up for @jpbliberty's crypto class action and participate in the funding of it. It needs less money ($US 2-3M in total) than he has already spent on Steem and has a huge ROI for his Steemit Inc claim alone.

    If Justin supports this, it is a huge win for the Steem community also because every Steemian has a claim in this class action based Steem being worth $6.14 when the Ad Ban was announced and being very directly affected by the ad ban. We have great evidence of this from Steem posts.

    We are well advanced with a law firm, top barristers, initial funding and US$350M in claimants signed up.

    Signup for the Crypto Class Action against Facebook & Google's Crypto Ad Ban

  • @ragnarokdel

    I am absolutely shook'd that @ned was a scum bag for a change.

  • @abitcoinskeptic

    It is very important to consider that we do not know what Justin / Tron know because of the NDA.

    I think you need to clarify something with your opening statement:

    "Justin Claims"

    @ned failed to disclose to @justinsunsteemit that the Ninja mined stake had been earmarked for community development and was not to be used for witness voting prior to selling it to him.

    Some assume Justin is telling the truth here. However, he may have received full disclosure and made a decision that the 'informal contract' was superseded by the sale.

    We also need to be aware that there is a dispute about the meaning of 'due diligence' but Tron claims to have done due diligence.

    Evidence of this was requested by the TRON team.

    I think before providing Justin with any information, he needs to back up his statement that Ned failed to reveal this to him. The mention of an NDA means this is a legal issue. Is there actually an NDA? What information cannot be revealed, what is the timeline. Before promising anything, lawyers will be required.

  • @joeyarnoldvn

    Does anybody here trust Justin Bieber Sun?

  • @steem.services

    Did Ned just pull a fast one on Justin? Justin really should have done his homework regarding Steem and DPOS blockchains in general.

    The sad part is that those exchanges were dragged into this scandal that could have been avoided by proper full disclosure of information between the parties in the transaction.

    But powering up clients' Steem tokens to help out Justin is definitely not good business practice on the part of those exchanges. And Justin should have really done his research regarding Steemit Inc. the Steem blockchain and the Steem roadmap documents before acquiring it for a quick flip and profit.

  • @fionasfavourites

    Very enlightening. Thanks to you and @ausbitbank for making this available. Seems that there was bad faith in a number of areas. Lots of damage done all round. Hope it can be resolved to achieve the win-win suggested.

  • @pundito

    Hi there, didn't he say during the call/meeting that his "witnesses" started fixing the pricing feed issue as they speak?

    He lies even about these simple (but still important) things. Nothing changed in the pricing feed during the last two days.

    He doesn't give a shit (anymore) now that he knows Ned sold him something else than he was told.

    A very stupid businessman who does not check what he was told before paying for a company.

    But thanks a lot for bringing the conversation online. It was interesting to listen - especially to Sun ... you could really "read between the lines" the difference of what he was saying and he was thinking.

    I am curious how he will keep the promise to the exchanges that the funds will be available within some days again. At least I assume he must have made such a promise to get the resources.

    STEEM ON!!! (and don't trust the words of a cornered person)

  • @eirik

    Thanks for this.

  • @rmach

    So he basically keeps buying time with meeting promises and now with actual meetings while strikes back...

  • @luca1777

    What a soap opera ;) And Ned is "gone"....yeah right...

  • @notconvinced

    So now what? Justin is going to do what he wants. What are the witnesses going to do to stop it? More talks are unnecessary. Justin made his intentions clear and thats going to destroy the trust and integrity of the blockchain.

  • @skramatters

    I liked the part Jian Yang said " I am business man I'm not want to be interfere with governance I want the profit" 😂 yeah fuck yes!!!


    Positions wanted apply within...

    We will see how instrumental all our steem resignations are.. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the small team that had extremely questionable results is not irreplaceable..

    Logic says work with Justin to create a profitable enterprise for all, I know, I know, that means some of the "volunteer" witnesses might actually have to clock in and work instead of pretending to do shut but, welcome to the real world!

    Jian Yang doesn't care about your decentralized fantasy he want the profit and if you get in the way I assure you that you will be displaced..

  • @agr8buzz

    Justin dodged the question about why exchanges would receive a reduced power down time. The question was asked and Justin jumps in and doesn't provide a direct answer. Sketchy!

    @followbtcnews Thank you for jumping in and nailing him on this, explaining the exchange power down feature is purely to give users their money back, WHICH SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN LOCKED UP IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    It's become very clear to me that part of Justin's deal with exchanges to power up and vote his new witnesses was to implement a fork so that they could power back down. THAT HAS BACK FIRED! Now that enough OG witnesses are back in top 20 to block a fork, exchanges and unfortunately their users are out of luck on this one..

  • @gduran

    Wasn't the preliminary meeting to be held on March 4? So when was this one that is taped agreed on?

  • @maxsieg

    so he admitted that he is scammed and hence acknowledging that the stake is owned by the community! hence any legal persecution should be between ned and @justinsunsteemit, as ned was wrong to sell a stake he does not own... if justin were to sell the stake and ran off with it, then it would be theft as justin knows the stake is not owned by him... also i never knew @followbtcnews had such a strong alabama accent...

  • @alexs1320

    Steemians sounded like a bunch of crazy communists from the beginning of the Revolution.

    Sun purchased - deal with it.

    Normal people believe in private property rights

  • @lpfaust

    Let's clarify one point - Justin claims Ned never disclosed any encumbrances against that ninja mined stake. The only way we would have absolute proof is to see the Representations and Warranties Ned signed off on from the Purchase Agreement to know the absolute truth of it.

  • @tamiil

    I actually support Justin's claim to use his stake as he sees fit. What we need to do is change governance so that stake wouldn't get him super majority if he or anyone else with a large stake decided to use it for voting.

  • @bil.prag

    my totally unimportant view of this. we could make a sister chain or he could sign a contract. if he really does not want to be the ruler of the chain he will not have a problem with it. contract that he will not use his stake for voting or witness manipulation. That he will continue development of steem for x time and finish SMT. apology for calling as all Hackers. No more crazy talk about steem coin swap and migration. Also their plan of development. All signed and checked by the lawyers. That would be a hard fork with no hard forks. Thik this would be ok from both sides.

    Also important thing. talking to ex steemit employers. Do they want to work with steemit on development. they know the chanin the best.

    As for exchanges, i don't know, i would like to see them sweat for a bit, but i think part of that pushing the meeting early was the pressure from exchanges.

  • @logiczombie

    Do you know what the key features are of the rogue 0.22.5 version?

  • @macchiata

    It's all about making money, that's it. Looks like he's not going to profit for this investment or is he?

  • @felix.herrmann

    @ned failed to disclose to @justinsunsteemit that the Ninja mined stake had been earmarked for community development and was not to be used for witness voting prior to selling it to him.


  • @ocupation

    We must not trust them, he is talking sbout money and 5 hours later he votes for his witnesses

  • @myfreebtc

    Talk is cheap, I will trust what they said after I see them off the top 20. Followbtcnews said it best, conversations should only resume after they comply with what was promised in this meeting! No point in talking further if no actions are taken, just a big waste of time. They proved they're not trustworthy, if they wanted to set the record clean they have to remove the witness votes and retract what was said on twitter about the consensus witnesses.

  • @vikisecrets

    Thx for sharing this meetup, I am proud of our witnesses now :) The more I hear from Justin, the more I think he is a liar and scammer now, first wanted to migrate everything to Tron, now changing the whole narrative, saying just wanted to make money, and now wants to exit and sell all of Steemit Incs stake asap, this guy seems like a liar, also considering how he misused his power and friends at exchanges.

  • @themarkymark

    Ned not only made his Twitter private, he deleted his tweets likely trying to protect himself from legal action, fortunately most of them have been archived and are available via a subpoena.

  • @armadilloman

    The bastards.

  • @darrenfj

    thanks for the uodate. It is appreciated to be kept in the loop..

  • @trendo.marketing

    Trendo projects will stand with human witnesses & with the community. Thank you for the summary $trdo

  • @battleaxe

    @ura-soul , had no idea of "Eureka", sounds more my vibe. Guess birds of a feather flock together and although I've only been doing this as a hobby and distanced after seeing what I felt was very uncool moves..........namely the DLIVE sell out I ceased being as involved as I had been at one time. Well anyhow, gonna check out Eureka,

  • @kus-knee

    I listened to the recording. Mr. Sun was very evasive on the important questions but holding him hostage has created huge mistrust.

    Calling the version being run .444 is childish and mean. Saying you won’t even meet again until demands are met is not helpful.

    Some of our witnesses in the meeting were tactful and held out olive branches. They did great. Others threw fuel on the fire. Not smart.

    I’m hopeful but some need to take a deep breath, calm down and be more diplomatic.

  • @breakingthings

    That's sad but not surprising

  • @julianhorack

    I never like tron. I now boycott those three exchanges and will tell everyone elses to do the same. BDS china in fact, conmen dog eaters will eat you snowflakes, just watch. I require us to get medieval on them. Now is the time ...use a virus or something, just kill the crypto mafia once and for all.

  • @preparedwombat

    The TRON team claimed they want to cancel their witness votes asap.

    It would take minutes to do that. Since they haven’t done so, they’re either lying or clueless about what asap means.

    The TRON team intends to put a fork in place to allow the exchanges to power down the stake they powered up in order to vote for witnesses with their clients' tokens.

    Our witnesses would have to be naïve to let the TRON team implement a fork.

    There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again..” ― George W. Bush

  • @suedoenym


    Ned needs to learn how to spell lying.

  • @voteminer


  • @denmarkguy

    Thanks for posting this @ura-soul.

    There are a lot of lines to read between, here...

    Seems increasingly obvious that Ned probably disclosed as little as possible about Steemit, Inc. and its promises and obligations in hopes of securing the most lucrative exit he possibly could. How close he has gotten to fraud we may never know... but if you sell a "beautiful house" and don't disclose the massive crack in the foundation, you may end up with your ass in a sling. Unless, of course, you managed to secure an "as is" deal with no reclamation rights...

    Justin sounds like someone who's akin to a "house flipper" who's so used to doing his "usual thing" that he got careless about reading the fine print and interpreting it properly. If you've flipped 50 modern tract houses for a profit... and just assume you can do the same with a historical building, YOU (the house flipper) are kind of an idiot. I think Justin had pretty much ZERO clue as to what a blockchain with consensus witnesses and an active community is. But then... Steem is a pretty unique beast in the blockchain space.

    I do believe he's completely sincere in the statement "I just wanna make money!" His intentions may have been as simple as "buy Steemit, throw a few $ million at developing features and social marketing, make it all a big deal, watch Steem rise from 15 cents to $5.00, sell out and pocket a couple of hundred million dollars.

    "Money people" tend to think like that, and have very little time for the "complications" of dealing with the human factor, except in terms of how it helps them make money.

    At the moment he just seems to be backpedaling a lot, and stalling for time... no doubt pondering whether or how he can come up with enough Steem to displace the 7 consensus witnesses that have made their way to the top.

    On the UPSIDE of all this mess, the community at large has learned about the importance of voting for witnesses...

  • @fiserman

    I'm not surprised.

  • @joythewanderer

    Justin: You guys are hackers! Ned: You guys are thieves!

    Justin and Ned together: "our hard earned money!"

  • @stoodkev

    Ned starts sweating seeing the lawsuit coming his way

  • @steemvpn

    SteemVPN supports your decision and v0.22.4444. We have stopped accepting payments in Tron for our VPN service.

  • @phusionphil
    1. Justin is a Bitch
    2. @ned is a Cuck Bitch
    3. Both of them should get married
  • @fredrikaa

    Understanding the information the Tron team and Justin Sun received from Ned was the main thing I wanted to get out of that meeting, as it helps us understand so much more of the situation they're in.

    Glad they've now given that answer as a reference. Whether or not it is true.

  • @asimpleman

    @ 8:30 on the first video. This individual is sadly mistaken! We have a centralized group that makes the decisions on this platform. To deny this is ludicrous. At least he made me laugh. Do you suppose he actually believes what he is saying?

    @21:50 the speaker claims that promises were made. This is clearly false, Ned couched it as a plan and as circumstances changed so did his plans! I have also listened to people making claims about documentation of promises but they are nowhere to be found. The only docs I have seen posted are stated plans not promises.

    Edit The more i listen the less respect I have for some of the witnesses. This is a ridiculous conversation.

  • @ronswanson92

    Thanks for posting this update. Helps clarify things for sure

  • @kudfa

    I just hope that Steemit will be okay in the future. indeed remembering the past is very bitter to remember. all active human beings have to wait for this steemit to remain like a social medium for expressing space.

  • @smtroyal

    Where are SMTs in all this? This is the last month of early 2020.

    Truely, when two elephants fight, the grass suffers. SMTs should be a silver lining in this cloud of uncertainty, because it is a chance for STEEM to set the pace in the crypto world and beyond.

    Investors are watching.

  • @steemvpn

    SteemVPN supports v0.22.4444

  • @bagofincome

    Was he always an ass or did he just became one?

  • @spellmaker

    This is sad.

  • @bagofincome

    BOI listened to it and it doesn't sound good. From what I see - they still haven't updated the price feed. It's a war out there and it's best for us to stay together!

    I also wrote a post about the latest events. BOI would appreciate you taking a look.

    Steem on, my friends!

  • @d0zer

    LOL @ Ned.

  • @brennanhm

    If justin had been more transparent with the community throughout the acquisition or during the AMA, the freeze wouldn't have been necessary. The duly elected witnesses, on behalf of the community, made a democratic decision to temporarily lock the funds until he could provide clarity of what his intentions were.

    Then, in complete totalitarian fashion, and neglecting tens of thousands of Steem voters, he used his contacts at Binance and Huobi to do a hostile takeover of the chain. This action goes completely against the principals of decentralization and does indeed prove that Justin is a businessman who cares more about his money and ego than the ethics behind community run blockchains.

  • @tongchat27

    Thx you

  • @alexvanaken

    @ura-soul do you know who didn’t mute their slack in the video? I wanted to watch it but OMG I was going crazy like a few minutes in due to a new slack notification sound every 2 seconds 🙈

  • @mattsanthonyit

    Thanks for the heads up on the fight.

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @eeks

    Ned can't spell lying?

  • @gcalex

    Justin sun should keep steem separate from tron and improve both chains..It's a win-win for both the steem community and his investment, but his pride with tron won't let him do it

    Posted using Partiko iOS

  • @nohaa

    I didn't believe I think it is a lie

  • @johnspalding

    You all are doing a great job. Keep up the negotiations.

  • @trendotoken

    Congratulations @ura-soul, your post successfully recieved 25.21887413 TRDO from below listed TRENDO callers:

    @trendo.marketing earned : 16.81258275 TRDO curation

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  • @geekpowered

    Do they even realize that a huge number of people are going to FUD off if they actually change power down to 3 days? I swear they did no research and have no understanding of what they bought.