My Personal Thoughts - Steem/Tron Saga

This is a very long and rambling video where I discuss my personal experience of the days leading up to the Steem Community Witness initiated Soft Fork 22.2 and The Tron Hostile Takeover a few days later.
I walk through my thoughts on the situation, while also covering where the Ninja Mine even came from (and why it's different), the clear threats to the Steem Blockchain, how certain aspects described in this hostile marketing from Tron were actual items listed in the sale and therefore payment was dependent on them occurring (and therefore a very valid threat), do I think this was all avoidable, and what happened in those "Witness Chats".
This is an hour-long, yes a whole hour, rambling video of my opinions and only that. I speak for no one and represent no one but myself.
As promised I do try to answer a few community questions after my rambling, around 40-minute timestamp (if you want to fast forward).. but most were answered through my explanation of the situation though.. in my own words.
The video was one take, unrehearsed, no plan.. just me talking my way through my experiences in this situation leading up to where we are now. What I think, and what I experienced.

... and apparently, I had a lot to say. Due to the size of the file, I had some issues uploading and therefore it's a day late. Since the time of recording, we have already seen a few more updates (and got more questions sent to me).. So I will try to record another (shorter one) soon. To update everyone on where we are now and what the next possible steps may be.


The following are just my honest thoughts and opinions. They do not represent any group or attempt to speak on anyone's behalf. This is just me... saying what I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXJXr2X82es


**2 of the 3 Exchanges involved in the Hostile Takeover I mention in the video have started powering down as of yesterday.

**I will go over the most recent updates in the next video.

**As mentioned in the video, this is a good post that shows some of the concerning messaging coming from Tron, leading up to the Soft Fork https://steempeak.com/steem/@pfunk/the-case-for-the-temporary-soft-fork


Much Love,

Justine


Comments
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  • @olaf123

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  • @mrgreen

    sun 3.png

  • @chekohler

    Thanks for the history lesson, I think its important for all of us to know as much as possible before we make our decisions. I honestly think even if this results in a fork its still a pretty amazing case study of how decentralisation and old style of corporate governance does not mix and you'll need to find a new mix to work together.

    Lol if anything this is a very expensive lesson for everyone, but we won't be alone there will be plenty of blockchains that go through shit and some will just die from it. A lot of the capital in the space is just speculation and eventually, it will be squeezed out of the chancers as some start to develop and pull away from the pack.

    I think a lot has happened here worth saving and if so, more power to the people I say

  • @madhusmart

    good info thumbs up!!!

  • @sanjeevm

    Apparently work is still going on hostile take over with just 8 witnesses in the top 20 now.

  • @luca1777

    When i read about the pop network, that got "robbed" by Tron Boy, i saw even more Red Flags...

  • @gorans

    Very nice

  • @worldcapture

    Very interesting talk @justineh - Now I finally understand where this "not" pre-mined stack is coming from. Thanks! :))

  • @luca1777

    Being so impressed by the community, will you power up the Steem you are currently powering down..? ;)

  • @offgridlife

    Excellent.... I’ll go Subscribe to your Youtube Channel.... I’m OffgridTV over there.

  • @nonameslefttouse

    Random comment about STEEM related things just so I could feel like I fit in.

  • @inertia

    image.png image.png image.png

  • @valued-customer

    It's a good idea to relate your personal experience of these events, for improving public understanding, and for the sake of posterity. I agree that the founder's stake has been a sword of Damocles hanging over our heads as long as Steem has existed, and that witnesses have failed to resolve that threat heretofore.

    I have personally engaged several current and former consensus witnesses in an attempt to better decentralize Steem, and still do presently. One issue that is pressing is how large stakeholders are advantaged by the extant witness voting mechanism over lesser stakeholders. 30 witness votes without depletion magnifies the influence of larger stakes over witnesses, and this appears - whether it does or not - to compromise witnesses regarding their positions due to their dependence on such stakeholders.

    I will not detail supporting evidence of that pandering resulting from the problem (despite much existing), but will show the math that explains how larger stakes are enabled to wield influence, disproportionately to their actual hodlings, over governance.

    User A has 1m Steem, casts 30 votes for witness, and wields 30M Steem influence over governance. User B has 100 Steem, casts 30 votes for witness, and wields 3000 Steem influence over governance. The difference between their hodlings is 999,900 Steem. The difference in the weight of their influence on governance however is 29,997,000 Steem. Heretofore witnesses have failed to rectify this imbalance in influence on governance, and an accusation can reasonably be made that, due to the general misunderstanding of this magnification of stake weight, historically consensus witnesses have been willing to pander to the interests of the most substantial stakeholders to secure their positions.

    I have discussed this current dilemma with many stakeholders, current, and former witnesses held in high regard generally, and have been given estimates of the stake held by Tron presently of ~100M Steem. Under the current witness voting paradigm that theoretically enables Tron to wield 3B Steem influence over governance, and this dramatically contributes to Sun's ability to instantly undertake control of the blockchain at his sole option.

    Clearly, this is a problem, and like the founder's stake itself, has been a problem with decentralizing governance as long as Steem has existed. This voting mechanism was coded by Stinc, which held the largest stake on the platform, and has refused to abstain from voting through codified mechanisms, although before Tron did so this stake has never before been used to effect governance directly. It is obvious why Stinc did so.

    While making the change to 1 Steem = 1 vote may not completely prevent this stake from being capable of arbitrary centralization of blockchain governance, the principles of decentralization, and of proportionality of influence of stake critical to DPoS, strongly support doing so. All that is required to make the change is to deplete VP for witness votes 100% without recharge (until votes are withdrawn, whereupon VP recharges 100% instantly), and merely adding VP code already deployed and well proven for ordinary voting with appropriate parameters is all that is necessary to do so.

    In discussion with a consensus witness since this hostile takeover has been undertaken, I have been struck by their unwillingness to substantively address this disproportionate influence of substantial stakeholders over governance. Frankly, their approach to the matter raised a stench of undue influence that triggered the smell test, and forced failure. TBQH, they sounded exactly like Roy Liu, making statements that meant nothing. I have also discussed this with other community consensus witnesses and former consensus witnesses with less objectionable results, including agreement that this change reduces Steem's vulnerability to Sybil attack, such as it now suffers via the founder's stake deployed by Tron.

    In the event we resecure Steem governance from the present attacker, it is of critical importance that we decrease our susceptibility to Sybil attack from this vector, and normalizing the influence of stake on governance so that all Steem holdings equally weigh on witnesses is essential.

    This problem has strengthened Tron's hand in it's attack on our blockchain, 30x. It's time to acknowledge the weaknesses of Steem that have allowed this existential threat to manifest, and arrange to resolve them to make the blockchain more secure and more decentralized.

    Thanks!

  • @abh12345

    That was long, but I am enjoying listening to people chat on the subject.

    As far as Tron voting for its own witnesses, I think it's fair to mention that they did this allegedly due to 3 Super Reps refusing to respond to requests to upgrade their boxes. I'm pretty sure (prior to 2 weeks ago anyway) that if any of our top 20 didn't respond when new code was put forward, they would be out in a matter of days.

    Anyway, I was pretty confident that this move on Tron would mean battle stations over here, and the rest as they say, is history.

    Personally, I don't think Justin is not going to go for any middle ground (partial burn, SPS donations) and think the only outcome here is a HF. Short term pain for long term gain, I hope.

  • @mamanovasim

    awesome video and lesson. partnership is not bad but centralization is bad.

  • @andrewmarkmusic

    @11:40 Yup...that's my thoughts as a small business owner. Steemit Inc., Tron, and the witnesses should have worked all this out in private prior to the public announcement.
    Instead, we get a public shitshow. I'll just add that anyone with any knowledge about the ninja mined stake (let alone Ned) could have predicted ALL of this in advance. The only logical deduction one can draw from that, or so it seems to me, is that this public drama was what was wanted for some reason...

  • @leoak

    Nice to hear thoughts like this

  • @skepticology

    Tron team's position has been consistent. They never intended to destroy STEEM token. The statements you refer to have been misinterpreted by some of the community but were made in the context of Steemit and other dapps they rightfully own. You don't have to believe them, but it's not fair to misrepresent their stated position. Regardless of how you view their words, it is their prerogative to define their meaning and actions.

  • @lordbutterfly

    They thought they bought Lino and Dlive. Thats what they thought.

  • @geekgirl

    Why were you blocked?

  • @test45

    #1 you deserve respect for putting yourself out there. However, you devoted most of your arguments in defense of the need for centralization and regulation. I recommend truly understanding the difference between centralization and decentralization . #2 yes Ned and Dan started with an advantage, they created the damn thing!
    we should at least respect them for that. #3 Ned had legal ownership of the Ninja mined stake, YOu even mentioned that they resisted the idea of making 100% for the community, Its 12 million dollar! That shit uses lots of lawyer and legal documents. IF no document exist thats a clear indication its his, not the communities. #4 The community support is based on a false narrative , you started this conversation with "Tron hostile takeover" thats your narrative. The only hostile action was the freezing of Justin Suns account. YOu wont except " hack" but you should talk to a lawyer first. IT was justin Suns legal property which was frozen. SO if illegal, its a hack. Justion many lawyers say it was illegal, what do the witnesses lawyer say? Thats right , they didnt think to ask. Well they should! Lets end that debate. #5 The community should first understand the legal stance of what occurred. This was not a community decision, the decision was made before the community even knew what was going on. Then they banded together under a false narrative of whales and voting bot accounts. #6 Justin and his lawyers, are not stupid . They understood they where only buying 20% of the company. They knew they could not fully support any of their ideas with a majority which would have to include the community. They where attacked , hacked! , by the witnesses. The community was never given a chance to decide. #7 Decentralization is risk of big and fast change, big ideas! Thats what we agreed too. Justin Sun was the biggest investor steem has ever had! HE clearly believes in steem. IT was $12 million of his money he invested. That got the attention of other investors. Rather then welcome our new family member, we attack. We make sure no other investor will invest. We destroy our relationship with our largest exchanges which we need. Wake the fuck up!

    I'm a steemian willing to go down with the ship.

  • @dannymens

    Nice thought

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @jaybird

    Shudang! Quite the comprehensive ramble ;)

  • @stackin

    Damn @justineh, an hour vid!! Fine i'll listen haha :)

  • @kingscrown

    took me some time to listen ;)

  • @bomex

    Love too... Good idea...

  • @auziflv

    Very nice idea

  • @philipkavan

    Dear Justineh,I haven't watched the full video because it is so long but I tried to watch or listen to the key parts of it.

    So after listening to yourself,I think there is nothing new in this video.I mean it is not your fault but it is like we are stuck in a situation from where we just don't want to get out.I thought that we were all united but then I realized as you said:

    There are a group of large stakeholders who are voting only half our witnesses and half of the sockpuppets because they don't want to take sides but just stop anyone from taking control.There are small stakeholders who are doing whatever they can and there are some large stakeholders who are doing nothing at all.

    Now,I realize that we are actually not that united anymore since the time it all started.I don't know but I think we are also making it all personal like slandering about Justin and Ned.

    The main thing we have to understand that we are not supposed to fight for control.We are supposed to fight for decentralization and keep the steem the way it is.I don't want downvote feature to be removed or powerdown period to be reduced within 3-7 days.I just know it that much.

    Thanks for making this video.I don't know how helpful or informative it was because you actually added nothing new in this video or no unique analysis of yours about the current situation.Still,it is a one hour long video.So I have to thank you for that.

    Best wishes to you.We love watching you,keep doing what you do.

  • @coininstant

    I liked your video, i thought it was informative and entertaining at the same tine. I learned a lot, it reminded me of watching the real world STEEM edition or something. Keep it up, i thought that was a funny funny question about steemit doing a newsletter to help get out the vote, lol!

  • @mondoshawan

    Thanks for your clear minded informations...

  • @joeyarnoldvn

    I've heard bits and pieces concerning the legend of the ninja mine over the years. But the way you explained it helped me get it. So, Steemit Inc was behind it. Interesting. My main concern in the Tron Steem Drama is in regards to whether or not exchanges voted for witnesses with the help of Steem currency which may have been not theirs to use, that is assuming exchanges did do that.

  • @alexs1320

    266$, good job single mom from the rural USA

    :*

  • @dj123

    heard you were spreading drama with your usual flavor of love...just drop by to get my fill :P

  • @matnu

    All the best For you... I strongly support that @justineh

  • @tonytrillions

    I use steem in earning for stacking more Bitcoin! Adding tron to steem community will help boost earnings but folks don't see that.

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @trayan

    @justineh, you're a great soul! I'm so happy to see you in action! ;)

  • @abitcoinskeptic

    Rip TL;DR

    I did watch some and try to read some of the comments and I'm sure you opinion is great and I'm not the most concise person either and this sentence is getting kinda long and why am I even writing this.

    TY for your efforts nonetheless.

  • @jaki01

    Interesting post. Flagged for disagreement on rewards.

  • @joythewanderer

    thanks for the effort of making the video and post, Kudos Justine.

  • @jacobpeacock

    @justineh I am currently working on an audio version of the video featured in this post. I want to know if you approve me posting it in the comments here once I have it remastered and is uploaded.

    This is a good summation of things and think that it should be spread and especially so to places where such video sites are censored.

    Cheers!

  • @jacobpeacock

    Here is an audio version of the video from @justineh's parent post.

    grnsmspkgood.png

    The origianl article featuring the video: https://steempeak.com/@justineh/my-personal-thoughts-steem-tron-saga

    The original video on Youtube here: https://youtu.be/iXJXr2X82es
    Or here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXJXr2X82es

    This is the direct link for the audio: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1f-bw4i82MFyjyCTPtcPoLHFNcZi1O5fL

    If someone could upload this audo file to IPFS that would be awesome.

    Enjoy!

  • @soundwavesphoton

    unknown-1.png

  • @ramzan786

    Great posting

  • @overgrownheffo

    Good, well made video!

  • @harryji

    Dear Justineh,

    I am Harry and a sort of newbie. I think I could help you or some english speaking Steemians understand other groups’ opinions. So give this comment.

    Thanks for your valuable opinion. It’s my pleasure and helpful to understand what you and old witnesses think. Please let me give you simple feedback that may be some other group members think now as far as I know. I am a sort of newbie so do not understand many things. But because of that, I could be a sort of objective. I am not on any side or biased.

    1. I understand some part of it why you and past witnesses insist on some core value like “Decentralization” and some other ones. But it seems some witnesses or you may be a lack of understanding about other community's “emotion” and opinions. This could be a different issue from Justin or Tron. I think that because up to now you and your side hasn’t needed to understand. You and past witnesses‘ side are a sort of center of this steem world having made big decisions and relevant benefit. So it seems to be related to what doesn’t respect other groups opinions(at least emotionally). So some other communities don’t believe past witnesses side direction. Many members think former witnesses group try to keep their sole absolute power and wealth from Justin and new trend. Someone may believe that in (up to now)decentralized world, past witnesses and relevant group were a sort of governor of that world controlling all like a king or god.

    2. And Justin seems to be a businessman pursuing benefit. For him, decentralization or other ideal ideology would be meaningless. That may be very crucial fact for many steemians. But it may be true. I do not have any power or enough knowledge about steem. so not many reason to be on Justin’s side. Just my small view.

    3. There is a clear language and culture barriers between groups or steemians. But you may not feel that seriously. You may not need that seriously up to now. Because you have been in the center of the power and steem culture. Still english language, culture and some groups are the center of this world. Some believe that other culture and language are not regarded as important considerations. Even though you cannot learn new culture or language, at least try to understand a variety of culture or language.

    4. I think you and old witnesses may be better to approach this issue step by step. First, try to explain your understanding to other groups, not pursuing them. Just explain. and step by step, you try to accept the others as a partner, but not as targets that should be on your side and giving SP to help some witnesses. It could be failed or not. But at least try.

  • @joshuaatiemo

    It might surely workout well . let's see what happens!